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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:29 am 
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In response to the mass email, I think the move to nas-central is a good thing. Yes, I may have solely been interested in a linkstation because that is what I own, but it is always interesting to keep one's mind open about other devices out there that are particularly hackworthy and for this to happen in one place is a good thing. In fact it's something I had previously considered setting up myself, so it's good to see it happening. I'm not sure where any of the credibility doubts about mindbender came from but there are certainly none from me.

Carry on with the good work.

BJPirt


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:44 am 
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hennew1980 wrote:
i don't share ramuk's opinion
i fully support mindblenders decision to extend the wiki.

i don't see the difficulty to click on buffalo devices on the left or just bookmark http://buffalo.nas-central.org/ and you are back to all buffalo only


Ditto.

I have owned several other NAS boxes (Synology DS106 for example) and hacked them. I joined other communities and I still check them now for useful info on this Buffalo box (eg WL500.info had some good tips on getting HellaNZB working which helped OUR Buffalo wiki).

Even now, much as I love by Linkstation (apart from last night when it was having none of JTYMod firmware and kept me up late and knackered for work today!!), I could see me grabbing a different box in the future. Having info about other boxes and an extended community can only be a good thing.

Just don't mess too much with the Wiki and the style at this time or people will get into their heads that its all "because of the expansion".

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:00 am 
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I don't see any problem here ... It's good as it is, and even if it could be a lot better ..., where do you find so much valuable information ? And for the little time i'm visiting this place (about 2 months or so), I noticed that mindbender has put an enormous amount of effort in this project ...

So, I hope it's not a scream for some attention, cause to me, it looks obvious that mindbender is respected by everyone ...

Keep up the good work, and whatever is bugging you, neglect it ...

Bart


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:32 am
Posts: 109
Personally I love the idea of one NAS forum covering every devices in order to share ideas etc.
Mindbender has support this site a lot - far more than anyone can expect for a volunteer "job" - let's give him credit for that!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:21 am 
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Jesus wept - who sent an email about this $hi&? I mean really who cares.

Classic example of how not to run something, way to go dudes.

As all critcism seems to end in a ban, I guess this is my last post :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:08 am
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Location: Munich
Hi

as long as we have buffalo.nas-central.org there is nothing I could say against the decision of growing the community!
Even though the main effort is to gain knowledge nothing is for free in our times. If the new style is able to get more revenue and money back then it is OK! Even this community has to spent money. Therefore there must be a way of earning it. If they way is to increase the community than this way has to be the way. Why not try to focus a development line of customized firmware for NAS devices? Why not going a way like DD-WRT has done for Wireless units? All of you developers and "brains behind the NAS" have the ability to do this!

Mindbenders work was and is great. From my point of view the community is alive and worth to keep it in this way.
Concerning the emails I got from others outside of this community there is no claim against the new look or content.

I'm heavy packed with other stuff so I don't have enough time to feed the threads and postings. But if someone needs help I'm available for all and everybody. Guys, keep on with your way! Keep the way of dividing the different manufacturers in different sub-wikis. So no manufacturer feels that he would be mixed up with the competitors. You are an opensource community with a lot of work done to get rid off the "closed" firmwares and to offer new - and mostly - much better functions and functionalities to these devices.

Please let me ask one question, especially dedicated to the "conservative" speakers here:
What do think this thread causes at the manufacturers site? They are(!) scanning the forum. From my point of view the first two pages of this thread are not intended to spend trust and reliability in the future growth and evolution. Please find back down to earth. Or discuss this internally, even if the consequence would be that someone will leave the community. You all have done a great job in supporting the opensource community with your work. Don't destroy it now.

Cheers from Munich, especially to Mindbender
Joerg


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:55 am 
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A lot of devices from different manufacturers share the same or close hardware (for instance, ALLNET and THECUS NAS boxes are identical).
Hardware and brand aren't linked.

So, I don't see any reason not to open the wiki to other brands.

I fully support Mindbender's decisions, even though he didn't answer my only pm! ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:39 am
Posts: 2604
I am really surprised at what the discussion is all about.
Maybe it is my age which let me look at this in an unemotional way,
but who really cares about a gateway front page?
I had not even recognized that there is a gateway frontpage before
this thread started.
My entrypoint was buffalo.nas-central.org since the mail arrived that
linkstationwiki was "migrated" to nas-central. And for me, it seemed
as if nothing else but the URL had changed. I admit that I do not pay
that much attention on appearance due to the fact that I am more
interested in getting informations on topics than to look at pretty web
pages. But your milage may vary.
Due to the lack of other NAS systems, I did not pay attention to any
of the other Wiki pages related to other systems yet. But it is also no
problem for me that these pages exist at all.
Although it was not announced before the call for donations to get a
new "server home" for linkstationwiki, that this kind of enhancement
of the Wiki will happen, it would not have changed my mind to donate
a single bit. Quite the contrary, I appreciate that mindbender shows
this kind of open mind.
mindbender, go on. You can count on my moral support.

Regards

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If there is no verified backup of a dataset, the dataset, by definition, is unimportant. (c't 2012)

RAID (no matter which level) never ever substitutes a backup. (me)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Just responding to the email...

I really have no problem with multiple NAS devices being supported on the site - if the admins feel that they can cope with the additional workload then all is good for me. I guess any potential downsides that may occur such as diffusion of content and navigational problems can be sorted out in time.

I definitely wouldnt be criticising in any way that the admins who dedicate their time (for free) to maintain this site - not that Im saying that anyone is doing this. If someone is criticising the admins for the changes they are making when they are not putting in an equal amount of work into the maintenance of the site their opinions should be safely ignored - this would be very self centered behaviour.

Im sure most of the users of this site appreciate all of the volunteer work that goes into maintaining this resource (I do!), and I think it would be a real loss if any of the admins (mindbender!) chose to cease their involvement with the site because of this type of criticism - especially when the aim of the changes seems to be to improve the site.

Theres nothing wrong with a healthy discussion of the issues though, as long as we all remain civil.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:39 pm 
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I wanted to write a longer post on this issue but due to time constraints this is not possible, my apologies.

I think I am right in saying that had if mindbender (and a few others) had not been driving the community forward during the various incidents last year, that we would not even have this community. I fully support his actions and going forward I think these issues need to be put behind us as we look to the future.

Also I believe I know mindbender well enough to say that he would never intentionally do anything to harm this community or act against its interests, in fact he is one of the most easy to approach members of the community and always tries to do his best for everyone.

People should realise the pressure running a community like this can put on a person, and thank mindbender for all his efforts. Its not a small task, in fact it is like a full time job at times but without a wage.

Thanks mindbender :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:29 pm 
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Location: Cheltenham, UK
The new expanded wiki idea seems great to me. And as for the Linkstation support that brought me here in the first place, I see that it's business as usual at the new URL: http://buffalo.nas-central.org -- and putting "linkstation" into Google still gets you that URL (redirected from http://www.linkstationwiki.net) on the first page of hits.

I wonder if some of the negative feelings from some people are partly due to a little visual cognition issue with the front page. Bear with me while I play armchair psychologist here. The first text the eye sees is simply the words "Main Page", then the eye takes in all those dreaded "corporate identity" logos filling the page, and only then do you see the words that we love in small text: "hacking community". It's sorta got a marketeering push about it, rather than a "Welcome to where NAS hacking is at!" vibe -- and that's offputting to hacker types like me. Totally irrational of course, but that's how it feels. It's a thought anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:17 pm 
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Location: United States of America
So normally I would not get involved in this sort of discussion (mainly since I only have a handful of posts to my name and mostly questions rather than replies)... but since we have all been prompted to here are my thoughts...


Quote:
I am unclear what is going on. I came here to hack my Linkstation. I think it is noble to share information but I don't feel the need to support everyone else's community, or create it for them. Let them do it on thier own. If they want help that's great.


I think it is good to have all of the communities within a single site and am wondering why this is an issue? If I am reading into this correctly you seem to be suggesting that this somehow is detracting from http://buffalo.nas-central.org/? If that is what you are suggesting then I have to say I have not noticed this.


Quote:
I don't want to hack everyone else's device, just mine. I am happy to join other communities if I can help or I get one of their devices, but I don't see a need to form everyone's communities for them, and maintain them.


Same here. I have to admit that I have looked at very few of the non buffalo pages since I only have a link station. Again I am wondering what the issue is? If you don't need or want to look at these pages then don't.


Quote:
I joined and contributed because this community helped me hack my LS and I was hoping that they would help me to do new and cool things with my Kuro-Pro that I might not have the expertise to do on my own. Now it seems like there is an unnercurrent of profiteering going on that I cannot see or understand. What is going on?


I am not even sure what this is referring to :?


I have always been happy with the help I got here... actually I have been amazed! With the help I have got here I have applied the hack to get root access, replaced the fan and HDD, upgraded to Openlink and have future plans for other fun stuff like Freelink or perhaps Foonas. I have no problems or complaints with all of the changes that have occurred to accommodate other types of NAS drives.


Ken.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:02 pm 
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Just some quick comments since I don't have a lot of time and haven't exactly been active here for quite some time.

I like the idea of more devices being supported, provided that there is a common focus: ie making foonas as hardware-agnostic as possible.

I've been visiting the site on and off for a while, but frankly, there doesn't seem to be much focus at this point. I'm very keen on some of the ideas that have been started here (foonas, freelinkomatix), but nothing seems to be in a solid state where someone like me without a lot of time can grab and go. Everything still seems to be very much pre-alpha. Perhaps this is because of focus being lost while trying to support too many new devices at once.

All I ever wanted from any of this was to make my Linkstation more efficient and to get more out of it. None of the current software seems to take care of all of my concerns yet (Freelink is still too much for a newbie with little time to spend, Openlink seems dead, Foonas doesn't seem ready yet, and I'm not sure anyone has put any focus on trying to improve the efficiency of the devices as much as cobbling together new features that add bloat or complexity).

I could be wrong about all of this. As I said, I haven't followed the community closely since time has been limited, and I haven't had enough connectivity freedom to use my Linkstation as a server to the outside world (which should change by the end of the month, finally). I will say that from my admittedly limited vantage point, it seems like there's been more attention paid to hacking a wider variety of devices than on creating a solid common goal for the existing hardware.

Perhaps it's time to break down the common goals and spell them out for everyone rather than going in twenty different directions at once? Following the Rockbox example might be good, if not already done.

-Packgrog


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:43 pm 
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re foonas comments (sorry off topic!)

Probably my biggest mistake with this was announcing this wayyy before it was ready (indeed I still intend to rewrite major chunks, if not most of the web interface), and providing precompiled builds of it to the general public - I have been thinking about removing these for some time as it probably does more harm than good at the moment!

Fortunately a minority of time is spent fixing platform specific issues these days. Basicly I am passed kernels/avr control daemons/other platform specific stuff to work in from the revevant people with expertise in these areas so the overhead of supporting lots of platforms is very small thanks to the wonders of OpenEmbedded.

I have updated the foonas portal with some more realistic info on foonas and foonas-iscsi release dates. BTW foonas-em (which is stable as far as PPC linkstations go) is getting localisation shortly, foonas-iscsi is due to be finished next and then it's all foonas.

I'll shut up now because this is wayyyy off topic (post replys in the OE thread in general dev!)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:37 pm 
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OT: @jonli, thanks for your visit, it's been nice to hear from you. Whish I'd been here to serve you a cold beer or a hot coffee. Maybe next time.

I've been following the thread quite close for the past few days. In my opinion the initial discussion was quite emotional. Now the last pages became a more cons and pros discussion (with a lot of pro-mindbender emotions :up:). And also think it's good that all this is discussed here and by the community.

Beeing here for almost 1 1/2 years now I can say that this community helped me a lot and I wouldn't have bought my LS PRO if the community and the first hacks of the PRO (thanks jonli and mindbender) hadn't been. At that point it was clear that you could expand the device far beyond the point buffalo has ever though of. Big leaps among many in that time were the connection to nslu, the shared server and the optware feed. I name them because they are a good examples for work accross communities.

So to sum up a few pros stated above for supporting other devices:
*) more input (ideas, knowledge, manpower, donations... ressources)
*) share of code/ideas for similar hardware from different manufacturers
*) more users to answer "standard questions"
*) one community with the possible cross links between the different sub-wiki's/forums
*) Still a "linkstationwiki" now buffalo.nas-central.org
*) information about other devices

The cons:
*) loss of focus (do one thing right instead many things half)
*) blurr of identification
*) misleaded/confused users and queries (annoyance)
*) more (administrative) overhead

Maybe this discussion should have been before the change of a layout, surely you can blame mindbender for that. But a discussion like this in a larger community might take very long with little progress. Mindbender took the risk and did the step forward. It's been said already you can't please everyone. Though I understand the cons and partly share them I think that the pros overweight. To me the step seems logical.

As everyone can see from just this thread. We are a community where discussion IS possible. So if someone wants some change. I think it can be discussed here and the admins listen as long as the query is brought up in a propper/fair manner (I'm thinking about a certain gpl-violation thread some time ago). But then I'd also ask this person to step up and help the admins to achieve this change. Because all this is achieved in our all free time and if something lacks it is manpower.

Regarding identification: 10-15 years ago I lived in Austria. At that time the car license plates were changed. From traditional black to european-style white. Large Austrian newspapers feared about Austrias identification. Then came the euro. Half europe feared about it's identification because they lost "their" money....

@mindbender: Keep your head up! (And maybe ... discuss major changes it with the other admins before acting).

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