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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:49 am 
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I think this is a lot better than the previous front page but the images still need to link to the wiki's. As far as I know this can't be done using mediawiki and that (in my opinion) is reason enough to stop using it for the front page. If we get a static front page then we could easily link to all the manufacturers without the text below and also provide links to the general wiki/blog/foonas. As an extra bonus we would probably save on server resources because I bet the first thing most people do when they get to nas-central.org is click on a manufacturer.

I also feel that the start of the front page is very simple (just click on the manufacturer of your device) but as you move down things become much more complicated and those links are not needed. People will get those links from their manufacturer wiki, maybe we would be better off having "my manufacturer is not listed" and "my device is not listed" links that sends them to a page on what to do next.

Maybe someone with access to the logs could give some real numbers showing what percentage of people get to nas-central and straight away click on a manufacturer link, and how many of those click on the logo, then go back and click on the text.

EDIT: If people think we should go this way then I'm quite prepared to write the HTML/CSS assuming nobody else wants to do it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:59 am 
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I agree with bbradley, The main page (for a newb) just doesn't work if the images don't link to the wiki. I'd say the static page would suffice as well, leaving the blog entries to be seen when going into the main wiki or each of the manufacturers wiki's.

just my $0.02

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:15 am 
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flavoie wrote:
Here i am, 2 days late, but i'll have a quite simple opinion on this.

-Do not duplicate wikis or communities that already exist.
For example, if there's already a nslu2 device, we should just limit ourselves
to link to their main website address.

-Not forget that we are sharing our hosting with nslu2-linux. Make sure
they're up to date with this and agree to hosts new wikis for other devices.

-Only create new wikis for devices that do not already have a website; If they want
to move here by their own decision, then sure, let them move here.

-Whether you want to spend time on the other wikis is up to every individual.
But the cross-learning and proximity of the wikis could be good for everyone.


Note that nslu2-linux is in close collaboration with mindbender on all these changes. We (nslu2-linux) have had a plan to migrate to MediaWiki for almost a year now, and the linksys subwiki will point to that new nslu2-linux wiki. The reason why there is a linksys subwiki here is because there are Linksys devices which nslu2-linux does not (and will not) support (e.g. the NAS200) that people will want to write information about.

From the NSLU2-Linux point of view, there is no duplication.

-- Rod

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:26 am 
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rwhitby wrote:
Note that nslu2-linux is in close collaboration with mindbender on all these changes. We (nslu2-linux) have had a plan to migrate to MediaWiki for almost a year now, and the linksys subwiki will point to that new nslu2-linux wiki. The reason why there is a linksys subwiki here is because there are Linksys devices which nslu2-linux does not (and will not) support (e.g. the NAS200) that people will want to write information about.


So as I understand it there will be a totally separate mediawiki instance for the nslu2 wiki, and it will not be the linksys instance - http://linksys.nas-central.org/index.php/Main_Page or under this instance. Thus other linksys device owners will be on thier own to fill up this wiki, or not fill it up. I assume that nas-central/linkstationwiki/kurowiki/terawiki people would probably not fill this wiki unless we had one of those devices. (EFG250 NAS200). I am assuming that is the same with the rest of the subwikis.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:42 am 
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nobody ever needs to do any work on any other wiki....it still is only a bookmark to the http://buffalo.nas-central.org...i could if really demanded by the majority also move the wiki back to http://linkstationwiki.net .....which itself is a strange name for the current wiki as it covers kuroboxes and terastations as well....

i have to think about authentication of all wikis.....because as soon as i move http://forum.nas-central.org back to http://forum.linkstationwiki.net i do not want to authenticate from the wikis anymore...i need a solution.... :|

(authentication via ldap would be a solution but that one is not finished yet)

and i have no time currently...

i already noticed that problem regarding linking from images when looking at the mediawiki syntax...we could use ramuks page as a base for a static page.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:34 am 
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ramuk wrote:
rwhitby wrote:
Note that nslu2-linux is in close collaboration with mindbender on all these changes. We (nslu2-linux) have had a plan to migrate to MediaWiki for almost a year now, and the linksys subwiki will point to that new nslu2-linux wiki. The reason why there is a linksys subwiki here is because there are Linksys devices which nslu2-linux does not (and will not) support (e.g. the NAS200) that people will want to write information about.


So as I understand it there will be a totally separate mediawiki instance for the nslu2 wiki, and it will not be the linksys instance - http://linksys.nas-central.org/index.php/Main_Page or under this instance. Thus other linksys device owners will be on thier own to fill up this wiki, or not fill it up. I assume that nas-central/linkstationwiki/kurowiki/terawiki people would probably not fill this wiki unless we had one of those devices. (EFG250 NAS200). I am assuming that is the same with the rest of the subwikis.


That is correct. A subwiki with only a few pages (i.e. descriptions of all the devices that Linksys makes, and either local information, or pointers to other hacking sites, or a notice saying that there is no firmware available to the best of our knowledge) is no big deal - it's no overhead on hosting, the disk space is trivial, and the CPU usage is trivial if it's not getting accessed. Since all the subwikis are set up identically, and share authentication, then the management overhead is minimal too.

Note that the current nslu2-linux PmWiki has information for NSLU2, NAS100d, DSMG600, FSG3, and all the Optware stuff too - all of this information is likely to be pushed out to the respective subwikis of nas-central.org by manufacturer. Someone who has an Iomega NAS100d and is looking for firmware doesn't care whether it's the nas100d-linux project or the nslu2-linux project who is creating the firmware - they just want to get the firmware.

-- Rod

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:39 am 
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mindbender wrote:
i already noticed that problem regarding linking from images when looking at the mediawiki syntax...we could use ramuks page as a base for a static page.


There are extensions to help Mediawiki do this. But a simpler solution is a static HTML page. Others were talking about reformatting it further using div/span instead of html/table I don't know how to write using those tags but I think there are many others who do, in fact the wikipedia portal page is written that way.

edit:
I used redirects to make the images point to the respective wiki pages... simpler then I thought
now just get rid of the "main page" tag at the top

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:24 pm 
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I am tending to side with what ramuk has said. I have been working away again and have been away from the wiki for a while working on code for the ARM series ls/kuro. I was dismayed really when I was presented with a rather commercial website when I logged on. It is becoming more awkward to get to the (our) forum to make a posting. There is a lot of good will here but I do feel that we have lost our way a bit. Was anyone else asked before we commenced this series of changes?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:10 pm 
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lb_worm wrote:
I am tending to side with what ramuk has said. I have been working away again and have been away from the wiki for a while working on code for the ARM series ls/kuro. I was dismayed really when I was presented with a rather commercial website when I logged on. It is becoming more awkward to get to the (our) forum to make a posting. There is a lot of good will here but I do feel that we have lost our way a bit. Was anyone else asked before we commenced this series of changes?


To be perfectly honest some of what you are seeing is my fault. It seemed to hard to me to figure out how to get to a "subwiki" in our case to the buffalo/linkstation wiki. So I proposed a greatly simplified main page that is currently up thier rather then ANOTHER mediawiki typical gateway page. Admittedly the more polished and simple the design gets the more commercial it looks.

Still I think I'm mixed about the wiki-explosion. I think it's a bit craZ. maybe links at the bottom.....

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LinkStation HG *250 Uboot - Foonas-EM - Freelink
Kuro HG *750 Uboot - Foonas-EM - Debian Squeeze
Kuro HD *60 Uboot - Foonas-EM - Debian Squeeze (For Sale)
KuroPro *2TB Debian Lenny Armel- Kernel 2.6.26
KuroPro *1TB Debian Lenny Armel- Kernel 2.6.25.6


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:47 pm 
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If we decide to go with static html for the front page how about something like http://byronbradley.co.uk/nas-central.html. A zip with the SVG and images is at http://byronbradley.co.uk/page.zip if anyone wants to play around with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:04 pm 
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bbradley wrote:
If we decide to go with static html for the front page how about something like http://byronbradley.co.uk/nas-central.html. A zip with the SVG and images is at http://byronbradley.co.uk/page.zip if anyone wants to play around with it.


One requirement is that we be able to quickly add a new manufacturer simply by submitting a logo file and editing some text. A single graphic image for the whole page doesn't meet this requirement - even if it does look great :-)

-- Rod

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:40 pm 
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some small snippets of the #linkstationwiki-log:
Code:
mindbender:  i have invested much time in things that might be considered openminded, but it seems that my roots (the linkstationwiki community) do not like what i do. 

Code:
mindbender: i do not want to sound harsh (this is the first time ever - actually anyone reading all my posts in the past i think can confirm that) but all my personal concern is at the boundary of becomming a little annoying. i have very important personal things to do and all this sidetracking (if this is the right word) might force me to quit my NAS hacking carreer completely. its not you ramuk....actually i seem to be generally not trusted anymore. 

....(several other IRC comments from others)....
Code:
mindbender: this discussion isn`t about burnout. it is about trustwothiness of myself. i will post my statement above in the current "what is going on"-thread for  putting this up to discussion. you can all write your opinions there. considering that i do this all for free it is rather hard for me to read all that critics and defending my visions that i have...maybe i do really bad things. maybe not.

Code:
mindbender: i believe that i am very tolerant and patient....i always tried to keep everyone happy. and i had to cast "raise dead" several times on this community. but now i am not trusted anymore by this community and i am severely buged with it in a time where i do not need this at all. leaving everything behind would be like denying what i loved the past 3 years of my life....just visit http://buffalo.nas-central.org/index.php/Linkstationwiki.NET_history so you have an impression about that.


i noticed that this video i made a while ago uses some small scratch-samples that might fit to that situation i am currently in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLeTNlllUkA

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:05 am 
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I lead the nslu2-linux project, and fully support the *.nas-central.org vision what mindbender is enacting.

The nslu2-linux project will not be wholesale moving to linksys.nas-central.org - we will be moving Optware information under nas-central, and we will be moving any non-NSLU2 information (we support about 12 non-NSLU2 devices) under nas-central.org manufacturer subwikis. We truly believe in the correctness of having manufacturer-based entry points to NAS-related information for the end-user. However, we will be keeping the http://www.nslu2-linux.org site separate due to the "brand" and identity that it has (i.e. it will not be subsumed by linksys.nas-central.org, however it will be linked to from linksys.nas-central.org). It's actually hosted on the same machine, but will be a separate site.

From my outsiders point of view, I think the crux of the matter here is whether the existing linkstationwiki.net community wants to rename itself to buffalo.nas-central.org, or whether it wants to retain it's "brand" and identity and just use bufallo.nas-central.org as another entry point into the linkstationwiki site (like the nslu2-linux project is going to do).

Note that 90% of what mindbender has achieved is orthogonal to that last paragraph, and should continue as planned irrespective of the decision made about whether linkstationwiki retains a separate identity or not. He should be applauded for this irrespective of your viewpoint on the issue in that last paragraph.

-- Rod

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:13 am 
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rwhitby wrote:
... He should be applauded for this irrespective of your viewpoint ...
-- Rod

Hear hear! (or here here!) - I agree! And the same for anyone else trying to solve these vexing but surely ephemeral questions that we see manifested here...

Let's figure this out and continue to put our energies towards hacking and community-building! :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:26 am 
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mindbender wrote:
Code:
mindbender: this discussion isn`t about burnout. it is about trustwothiness of myself. i will post my statement above in the current "what is going on"-thread for  putting this up to discussion. you can all write your opinions there. considering that i do this all for free it is rather hard for me to read all that critics and defending my visions that i have...maybe i do really bad things. maybe not.


Hi

and sorry, very sorry, really-really-really very sorry. I really do not have time or wish to read all posts in this thread, but I have read _quite_ a few of them. And to me it looks like just a purely technical discussion about how to make the site better. Which is fine! Which is a great topic to discuss and a great thing to improve. And - I haven't find a single place in those dozens of posts that I skipped over - who and where ever expressed a lack of trust to mindbender? Could someone, please, point me to some of those posts? If it is just about some of us finding what mindbender has done, i.e., how he has designed the site not quite optimal and willing to improve it - I don't see it as an expression of a lack of trust. Everything can be improved. Nobody has managed until now to make anything perfect. Ok, I do not know what I am talking about. Could someone please point me to those posts, please?

Thanks
Guennadi


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